Osvaldo and Ferruccia Particelli

Interview with Osvaldo Particelli, Ferruccia Particelli, Ray Particelli
Interviewed by Jan Bradley
Date: February 10, 2015 at the Particelli home.

Osvaldo Particelli

J=Jan Bradley O= Osvaldo F=Ferruccia R=Ray

J: This is Jan Bradley and I am interviewing Oswaldo Particelli and Ferruccia Particelli with Ray Particelli, their son, translating. The date is Feb. 10, 2015. OK. So, I would like to know when you came to St. Helena and what made you come to St. Helena? Why St. Helena?

R: In Italian.

O: In Italian.

F: In Italian.

R: In Italian. (Three discussing dates in Italian)

R: They came in 1967, and they came to St. Helena because my Uncle Nelson, his brother, my dad’s brother, had started…

O: Napa Valley Olive Oil

R: …working at Napa Valley Olive Oil. Not started the business, started working there.

J: So what did you do when you first came? Where did you live when you first came?

R: Um, I mean, I have the answers. Do you need them to tell me or can I tell you?

O & F: (In Italian. Discussing living in San Francisco before coming to St. Helena, and what to discuss first. Decided to talk about St. Helena.)

R: They lived above the store. There was a couple of bedrooms up there. They had a bedroom and I had a bedroom. And from the first day they came, they worked at the store.

J: Were you born here then?

R: No. My sister was. I was born in Santa Rosa in 1961. My sister was born here in ’67.

J: So they came to the country in …

R: 1960. Yeah. Arrived from Italy in 1960.

F: Long time ago.

J: So tell me, what was St. Helena like when you first came? And what was the Olive Oil Factory like when you first came?

R: Translating question into Italian.

O: Era espeta. Era 3,000 people.

R: He said there was about 3,000 people.

F: In Italian

R: Yeah. Little stuff. Like when they’d go to church they knew everybody.

O: Everything.

F: Now, every Sunday is new, new, new.

R: A lot more concentration of Italians back in the day. Yeah. All it takes, it’s amazing, you walk the cemetery… it’s amazing how many Italians are in there.

J: And back then did the Olive Oil Factory just do the olive oil, and were you still crushing the olives there?

R: In Italian translating.

O: No, no. Never. That the old man, Guidi.

R: Guidi did the oil. And the store was a smaller version of what it is now. It had already converted from just manufacturing olive oil to an Italian grocery.

O: In Italian
R: In Italian
F: In Italian
R: In Italian

R: He was saying that during the war, the government, I don’t know who, the government was taking the olive oil from the store, for whatever reason.

O: He talk for me.

R: Yeah, that’s what Guidi said. We don’t know.

O: You remember Guidi?

J: I do. I do remember. So when did Guidi start the business? Or when did he…

R: Roughly, ’31, 1931.

J: And he actually started it.

R: Yeah. It was… The history we have is basically a bit of oral history as well. The barn was built in the 1890s, and it was the barn for the house that is on the property. From what we’ve heard from some old timers, it was a barn for feed and you had one dairy cow that used to roam there where the vineyard is. And then in ’31 Guidi bought it and turned it into the manufacturing of olive oil.

O: Before this… in Italian…
R: In Italian (I said that)
F: In Italian (Laughter)

J: So when did you bring the Lucchesis over?

R: In Italian (When did Pulio arrive?)
O: In Italian (Pulio arrived…)
R: In Italian
O: In Italian
R: In Italian
O: In Italian
R: In Italian
F: In Italian

R: We could call Narcisa and find out…

J: Or I can ask her…

R: Yeah, you can ask her. Yeah, you can punch that in.

J: So, evidently the business grew, and you prospered. So when did you move here (to their home at the end of McCorkle)?

R: When Guidi had the business first, it was first basically just an olive oil manufacturing and the bulk of his clientele, the bulk of where he distributed his oil was in The City (SF) so… And he had brothers in the Filbert District that had Guidi Brothers Market. A little market.

F: Octavia

O: Octavia and Filbert

R: Yeah, at the corner of Filbert and Octavia in the Marina. So he would bring the product down there and he would sell it. And what started happening was that the locals knew that, you know, he was making trips to the city so they would put orders in for staples, Italian staples that were hard to come by. I mean, you know, Italian food now is pretty mainstream, but back then it was ethnic food, you know. So he would bring oil down and then deliver stuff back to people. So what he started doing was he started bringing back a little bit more, so he could throw it in his building. Some salamis and cheeses, so he would have it and people wouldn’t have to order it and he’d go down to the city. So it kinda went full circle and turned into more of a grocery store in that regard. But the problem was it was just kinda his friends and him. So, I mean, he’d work two or three days, do the oil, and then he wouldn’t work at all, you know for weeks.

So when my uncle came, he was there seven days a week. And then all of a sudden, if you needed some pasta or something, you could run down there, ‘cause they’d be open. And again, in ’67 my mom and dad joined him, and just established the consistency, and stuff of someone always being there.

And then you know, we got lucky in a couple of regards. One, Italian food became very, very popular; everybody loves Italian food. And then, secondly, the olive oil we made was always really nice and fairly priced. And then, kind of a big deal for us, a big break for us, for my family, was when the Heart Association endorsed olive oil, as a healthy fat. So it went, you know, everybody using butter, to people started, “Oh what’s all this olive oil about?” Olive oil was a very, very ethnic food, you know. Now it seems ridiculous, because it’s so mainstream, but in the 60s, you know, the Spanish, the Greeks, the Italians… I mean a lot of people didn’t know what to do with olive oil.
(8:36)
So once it was endorsed by the American Heart Association, it kinda got..

F: A friend!

R: People’s attention, as far as all these healthy people and stuff who started to try it. And that made a huge impact.

F: In Italian

J: And that was when?

F: In background, in Italian

R: That was about probably the 70’s. Mid 70’s when that kind of stuff started happening. You know the government started, not dictating, but suggesting what was healthy and what was not healthy, and it was kind of a big deal for the American Heart Association to come out and say that.

J: When did you, Ray, first start working in the store?

R: I graduated in 1979 and I didn’t want to come straight to work. I mean I knew I wanted to come here, but I didn’t want to go from a senior, doing everything I wanted every day of my life, to working six days a week peddling cheese and olive oil. So I took a year and went to Sac State in 1980, and it was never for school for the sake of school. I mean I knew I wasn’t going to get a degree; I knew I wasn’t going to go for four or five years or whatever.

So the next year, in ’81 is when I joined.

F: In Italian

R: We came down, my folks bought this property (at the end of McCorkle) in ’77. So it’s kind of a neat story in itself. We, from The City, came up and lived… Guidi had the same properties we do now, but none of them were vacant. My uncle lived in the house where Miguel lives now ( ed. note: 810 Charter Oak), and there was another tenant in Neidy’s house ( ed. note: 812 Charter Oak) and then there was a St. Helena police officer who lives where Leo lives now (— McCorkle). So for the first…
Questioning in Italian

F: In Italian

R: For the first 7 or 8 months that we lived here full time… I mean theirs truly is an immigrant story. They came over in 1960 owing money. The reason they came is because my father’s uncle had a job here, had a job in Fulton. Remember the poultry processing plant right there in Fulton, like if you go from here to the coast. And that’s where he worked, and he promised them… he didn’t promise them, but he said that his boss would guarantee ‘em work if he came over here, both of them. So they came and they did that for a couple of years. And then there was an opportunity to move to The City with more Italians, and he (Osvaldo) did masonry work and my mom stayed, my mom stayed…

F: In Italian

R: Yeah, the terrazzo, like that granite top there. That’s what he did for a few years. And my mom stayed actually with the chicken place.

F: Different. We make like a TV dinner.
(11:20)
R: Yeah, they do airplane… put stuff together for airplanes and stuff. While they were in the City, Nelson had started working up here, and they started getting busier and busier, just from the amount of time. He was now open 7 days a week. So people started being able to plan on coming.

F: In Italian

R: So, Guidi was done. He didn’t want to work any more. I knew him my whole life and my whole life he was old. I mean he died in his mid-90s you know. So thirty years ago, you know… well now he’d have been a hundred and something. But thirty, forty years ago he was seventy already, you know. So they (Osvaldo and Ferruccia) would come up. They would do their job five days a week and catch the last Greyhound bus from the City to St. Helena. And they’d get off of the bus and they, you know, and then they’d work all Saturday and Sunday here at the store. And then they’d catch the last bus out Sunday night back to the City, and do their job at the City for five days.

F: Work a lot. Months.

R: They just work night and day. And then at one point, when this started showing that it was going to be a consistent job, you know, as far as, it worked.

F: Uno momento. More in Italian.

R: Yeah, and in the meantime, so they were coming up here, they were working their job five days a week in the City and then coming up here, working weekends up here. And then my grandfather, my Dad’s dad, got sick, was diagnosed with throat cancer. So we actually were going to go to Italy and take care of him, while he was dying. So being that, they were going to give up their place in the City because the trip to Italy was going to be for an indefinite amount of time.

F: We don’t know if they got money over there.

R: Yeah, so to continue to pay rent, there just wasn’t that kind of money.

F: Raggianti let you (us) put all furnishing in the barn.

R: Yeah, Fanucci’s grandfather, Raggianti, who lived there for a hundred years, he let them put all their furniture and stuff in that back barn by your guys back yard. And the idea was that they would go to Italy and take care of that and when they came back from Italy, instead of going back to the City, they would just come straight to St. Helena. And they did. We went to Italy for about six months and then… we came back and moved into the top of the store. Then my uncle went, his (Oswald’s) brother went to spend the little bit of time…

F: Oh, the first time, we do no have much, nothing like now.

O: In Italian (laughing)

R: In Italian

F: In Italian

R: So he… When we got back to (from) Italy, we moved into the store and my uncle left and spent a few months in Italy with his dying father who ended up dying. My grandfather ended up dying, and then… So we put eight months, 8-10 months lived on top of the store, and then the house where Leo lives now became vacant. So we moved into there.

F: Excuse me. I coming from Italy I expecting Leo. I no feel good, my mama said, mi di (?), now you no feel good, what’s a matter? Pretty soon I know, pregnant.

R: Yeah, so that was 820 McCorkle. We lived at 820 McCorkle until ’77, when we moved here which is 591 McCorkle. Then, I was here until I got married, then I moved to 821 McCorkle, right across the street from the house I grew up in. So my life, since the early sixties was four addresses on McCorkle.

F: He want to keep it this way. (Laughter)

J: And then your boys now…

R: My boys now are working at the stores, at both the stores. So that’s three generations, 4 generations of Italians. And you know everybody… the most common mistake of our older clients, people who have been coming a long time, is thinking that Guidi was related to us. You know, because he lived with us for 25 years. He lived with my uncle Nelson for the first 7 or 8 and then when Nelson retired and he moved off the property, Paul and Narcisa moved in. And so they inherited him. So he’s lived with us…He’s now passed, obviously, but he spent about 25 years of his life with us, so everybody thinks that that’s my grandfather, and then my dad and then me, and now my kids. So they see my kids… I mean, my whole life, I’ve heard, “Oh you’re the third generation.” And it gets to the point where you’re just, “yeah, yeah…” you know. So now my kids are hearing, “Oh, you’re the 4th generation”. And they’re going through the same thing I did. Some people they tell, “Oh Guidi wasn’t related to us.” And to some people, they just let them assume, let them go with it.


J: I can ask you (Ray). What do you remember about…? What are some of your fond memories about St. Helena when you were growing up? Or what do you (Ferruccia & Osvaldo) remember about life in St. Helena when you first came, other than just working in the store?

F: In Italian.

R: You know, things like Sons of Italy, you know that kind of civic event, was a little bit different from back then because you literally knew everybody. For my parents, one of the kinda cool things was that there was a ton of Italians. My dad, both my folks have been here since 1960, and my mom does ok but my dad doesn’t speak very well in English. An he’s very, very social. So it’s not too..

O: In Italian.

R: Yeah, once a month there would be some sort of civic gathering, you know. And they just knew everybody. And that’s the same thing for me. It was just a little bit different world.

F: In Italian.

R: We always fished as a family. You know, we’d run up to Conn Dam. They’d plant trout, and you’d catch your trout, crappie, and your catfish and blue gill, and your bass and a decent amount of game. I mean, for most Italians, especially ones just off the boat, hunting and fishing, the outdoors is kind of a part of their heritage.

You know this valley’s very, very reminiscent to Tuscany, both in climate and geographically. There’s a ton of similarities, which always made them feel good. You know it’s always been that kind of pastoral life, a little bit. You know, kind of outside, get your hands dirty. You know they came from a different world. During the Depression in Italy, and the war and stuff. You know one of the things that’s kind of humorous is fishing. Catch and release just didn’t exist. So my kids will go fishing and they’ll catch a hundred fish and come home with maybe one or two for my folks because they really want to eat them.

F: In Italian.

R: You know that just doesn’t make sense. I mean they literally had to fish and hunt and gather…

F: We fish for eat.
(18:40)
R: Yeah, to survive. Our little town in Italy was incredibly poor and got hit hard during the war and stuff.

O: Right. In Italian.

R: Yeah. He’d get up at 3 in the morning in Italy and he’d go hunt for birds that were not much bigger than sparrows, and for every three that he would give them, they would give him a loaf of bread to take home. So that mindset, and then seeing my kids go out and catch a hundred bass and not bring any home is just… It’s funny. You know, I think if the world continues to go another million years, I don’t think there will ever be a generational difference, and the amount of stuff that occurred in the world, as did in their generation. I mean, I remember in my lifetime, they’d call over to Italy and there’d be one phone. It would be like at Bill’s house. And then Bill would send runners out to get either my grandmother or my grandmother here. You would call and it would be like just calling the one phone in town and they would run and get whoever you were trying to get a hold of. Not a car in town, you know, nothing. And that’s in his lifetime.

O: In Italian.

R: Yeah, in Italy… I don’t know if this is getting off the track a little bit.

J: No this is good. We like any kind of history.
R: Yeah, I mean, 15, 16 years old, they’d just drag wood up out of the forest and cut and split and send it back down. I mean, it was just a different world, you know. We talk about it quite a bit, because we’re fortunate. We sit three generations down for almost every meal. I mean, you know, my kids still eat here every day. We eat here. So they hear it, but they have no idea. They just… and I don’t have any idea. I mean I have no idea of what that level of commitment… and not knowing where your next meal is coming from. I mean, no one on the planet has hunted more than me, but we do it for fun. It’s different when you gotta get up, and if you don’t get anything, and nobody eats. So that part of the world changed when they got here. I mean, here it was never like that. It was a lot of work, but it was never like that. There was always everything they needed. And that was kind of, obviously, a cool thing.


J: So what was the town in Italy where you came from?

R: Corsagna.

J: Corsagna.

R: Yeah. Just north of Lucca.

F: Little town outside of Lucca. About 800 people.

J: Up in the mountains?

F: Si.

R: Yeah.

J: And you were both (Osvaldo and Ferruccia) born there?

R: Actually my father was born in Rio de Janerio.

J: No!

R: Yeah. My grandfather, his dad…My grandfather’s generation was just the generation that started splitting between North America and South America. I mean, prior to that, South America was where a lot of Italian immigrants went because they had a foothold there. There had been some predecessors there, so there was some history of Italians there, and there was work there. They just went where the work was. My grandfather’s generation, again, his (Osvaldo’s) dad’s generation, some of them started coming to North America. And obviously some came before that, but from our area, it had been mostly South America. He (Osvaldo) and a lot of his friends still, not many of them left now, but they were Italians born in Brazil.

J: But then you (Osvaldo) went back to Corsagna.

R: Yeah, yeah. That’s where his folks were from. His folks were from there, too. And that’s where she (Ferruccia) was from. And then after a while, his mother went back and just his dad and him and his brother were over there working, but his mom was back in Corsagna. So he went back and forth a couple of times.

J: So I’m going to ask Ferruccia. Why did you decide to marry Osvaldo?

F: I don’t know (laughter). I ask myself! (Laughter)

R: Biggest mistake of her life. (laughter)

O: Ferruccia beautiful girl.

J: Oh, I imagine, yes.

O: Beautiful girl. Twenty year. (Laughter)

F: I met him, but I 19 year old, so…

R: She was 19. He was 36. 17 year disparity.

O: Nice, eh?

F: Yeah, very nice. (Laughter)

J: (To Ray) So you didn’t work at all in the store when you were in high school?

R: No. Well, you know, I helped out if something needed to be done, but until I started working, I didn’t work. My sister and I, we didn’t…

F: In Italian

O: I worked 13-14 hora day for year, year, year. And no have a day off. 4 days: Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Year, Easter.

R: Easter. Four days a year (off).

F: Pretty soon we started one day off.

R: Yeah. They didn’t have days off for years and years and years. And then they started having Wednesdays and Thursdays off.

F: And every time we get a day off, we go clean it. We have a place in Napa, and we go over there and clean it. Wednesdays and Thursdays, Mondays now.

R: For years, and I remember this vividly, growing up, their day off was spent… When they finally started getting a day off, my uncle got like a, my uncle got Wednesdays and my folks got Thursdays. And most of our Thursdays were spent… We, along the way, had invested in some, had built some apartments in Napa and in Santa Rosa and stuff. And their days off were spent going and cleaning the apartments. It was crazy.

F: Yeah. Sometime you go fish early in the morning, come back and go…

R: As a kid, I couldn’t understand why they couldn’t mow their own damn grass or sweep up. I mean it was ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. So we’d go over in the car and take care of stuff and then every two or three weeks we’d go over in the truck, when there was a truckload, you know. Throw it in the back of the truck, all the trimmings, the prunings, the lawn, the clippings, the leaves. As a young kid, I just couldn’t understand why they had to give up their day off to go clean up after somebody.

J: (To Ferruccia and Osvaldo) So, when did you retire from the store? I know, not completely…

R: In Italian

O: In Italian

F: In Italian

O: In Italian… Oh, at 65

F: At 65.

R: Yeah, he was about 65.

F: But, No he go work anyway ma.
R: Yeah, he worked, but that’s about when my sister started working, about 25 years ago.

O: My take Social Security.

F: In Italian.

R: My mom actually worked until she just dislocated her shoulder a few months ago. That’s kind of been her retirement. She hasn’t been using her right arm, so she hasn’t been able to do anything.

F: Now gotta excuse.

J: (To Ferruccia) And you still work babysitting. When the kids were real little, I know that you would babysit them a lot.

F: Yeah, and making lunch and dinner for our kids.
(27:15)
J: (To Ray) So you went all the way through school here in St. Helena?

R: I went to St. Helena Parochial, then I went to Justin. I graduated from Justin Sienna. My dad wanted me to stay in town; my mom wanted me to get a Catholic education. The religion is a big part of the life.

(A visitor drops in. They speak in Italian for a bit, then she goes into the other room.)

J: Well, is there anything else that you would like to share? I mean we got a lot of information just in this short time.

R: Is there anything you want to get in on?

F: In Italian.

R: I’ve got to say that I feel, I kinda feel bad, the history kinda went their way instead of St. Helena. The biggest thing about St. Helena was just the tempo of life was always really nice. And little stuff. You’d get in trouble, but you’d get in trouble like you know, and the cops would slap your hands and threaten to tell your dad. You know, I mean, that kind of thing. I get that they’re handcuffed and they can’t do that kind of thing anymore, but it’s a different mindset. Everybody was a neighbor. Everybody was somebody that you had history with. And now, you know, it’s such a beautiful place to live, that people just want to be here, which is great, you know. The success of my family’s business has been due to a large part of location, just because we’re in the Napa Valley. But it’s a different world. I mean it’s a different world on a lot of levels.

You don’t know everybody anymore. And then it’s just a different mindset, you know. We were, literally, a hard working agricultural society where nobody was entitled. Everybody went out and got what they needed and worked for it, and this and that. Now, everybody’s entitled. It’s just crazy to me. I mean I coached high school basketball for 32 years consecutively. This is the first year that I haven’t. And one of the reasons that I stepped out was just that. The same changes that have happened in the valley have happened with the kids that I have coached for almost my entire life. I just don’t understand it. I have a hard time with it, you know. I don’t know how everybody feels entitled. Nobody goes out and earns anything anymore. That’s somewhat disappointing, when you see the valley… you know… But again, part of the family’s success is because we’re in such a beautiful location. And, because we are in such a beautiful location, millions of people want to be here and be a part of it, and so they come.

J: Speaking of beautiful locations, your whole landscaping here… it’s like stepping back into Italy.

F: Si, Si.

J: We walk by here, and we walk the vineyard sometimes and come back around here and see the bocce court, and the chickens. It’s beautiful!

R: And that’s one of the things, too. It’s authentic. You know, now people try to get it…

F: We have a lotta mess a long time.

R: This is just all they know. This is how they… this is who they are. This isn’t, you know, a designer coming in and saying, “Let’s make it look like Tuscany.” Or “Let’s give it a feel of old Italy”. This is what it is because this is who we are. And that’s kind of reflected in how the valley has changed. You know, now people pay somebody to make it look like you’re old St. Helena. You know the old St. Helenans looked old St. Helena because that’s who they were. There was no million dollar designer saying, “We’ll drop that wagon wheel over there and put the old press there, and you know, you want to make sure you get some mustard greens growing off the side of your house.” I mean, people plant olives and then spray them so they don’t grow fruit. I mean, to me that’s the epitome of what’s happened to the valley. You know, you plant an olive tree, which is a gorgeous tree, and you spray it so it doesn’t bear fruit. Well, that’s because you want it to look like something, not because you…And that, to a certain extent, I mean that literally sums up the change in the valley. You know, they love the agriculture, and they sterilize them, because it’s inconvenient. But they want the look of it, you know.

F: We cannot stand it because for this much olive oil (shows a little bit with fingers), we go around for two, three hours.

O: Incredible. The difference.

R: In Italian. You know, they don’t want the olives on the ground because it stains their white carpets in their farmhouses. Well, again…

J: Farmhouses don’t have white carpets.

R: Yeah, yeah.

O: No make sense.

R: Yeah, and what farmer is going to sterilize his fruit? But again, the reason our house is worth a million dollars is because there’s ten people in line who want to buy it.

F: In Italian.

R: So, I’m not knocking it, but that’s definitely is a change in the valley. I mean, literally, an agricultural valley that people sterilize stuff because it’s inconvenient is a bit ironic. There’s no question about that.

F: In Italian.

J: Osvaldo, did you do a lot of this work here (indicating the house and gardens) yourself?

O: No, not any more. Now maybe twenty, so, four or five years…

F: Lazy!

R: He’s 90 years old. He did it well into his late 80’s. A lot of the maintenance… A lot of this stuff was here. This was a great property. The Pappases owned it before we did. For years and years and years they would have the Greek… The Greek picnic was on this site. But most of the fruit trees my dad put in. It goes back again to being part of the land. And land was an important thing back in Italy.

O: In Italian.

R: It was an old walnut orchard. Walnuts and prunes, when we bought it, outside the fence. I remember as a kid, coming down here and picking walnuts and prunes and getting 25 cents a box.

F: In Italian.

R: Yeah. It was right after we bought the place, we harvested… they harvested the prunes, the big Santa Rosa prunes and brought them to Sunkist in Santa Rosa, for the dehydrator.
F: In Italian

R: No, no, not the big ones… the little ones, the little prunes, like Sunkist has those prunes. And we didn’t know anything, or they didn’t know anything about it. They were ripe; they picked them and brought them over.

F: It was so hot, and we picked…

R: Yeah, you know, it was a hot St. Helena summer, and they killed themselves picking prunes. And they brought them over there and the guy says, “Go ahead and turn around, and the first ditch you see, go ahead and dump them.”

F: Osvaldo make grappa.

R: So we brought them back home and made grappa. It really is the proverbial, “If life gives you lemons, make lemonade.”

F: Osvaldo make grappa.

O: No, no… In Italian.

Ray: In Italian.

F: In Italian.

J: So do you sell your grapes or do you make your own wine?

O: No, no. I sell.

F: In Italian.

R: We sell them. Right now we sell to Markham. We sold to Coppola for a long time and then he went all estate after he bought that second vineyard. So he was buying our grapes just as a favor because he was a dear friend of ours, so he was continuing to buy them. You know, Geyserville, where Stefano had that restaurant, The Rustic. And it didn’t make sense for him to pay Napa Valley prices when he’s got that bunch of grapes over there. So, Brian del Bondio is a friend of ours as well, with Markham, and he had his people come down and check the vineyard, and taste the fruit and taste the wine, and he was happy with it. So we’ve been contracted to Markham for a few years.

J: So you don’t make your own wine any more?

R: We do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We do a little bit. I mean, you know, there’s 30 tons out there, so we can trim a little bit. And we have a smaller vineyard of a few different varietals that we were going to mix in with the Cabernets and stuff. And my brother-in-law, Michael, has grapes in Napa and stuff, so for the amount of wine we make, we’ve got plenty of grapes. So we can pilfer a few here and there and make our table wine.

J: (To Osvaldo) So is your philosophy like Raggianti: “The key to long life is a glass of red wine every day” ?

R: Yeah, He’s brandy. He has his Campari. He watches his clock, and like right now, in 17 minutes, he’ll have his first drink of the day at 11:00.

O: Every day I have my…

R: You have your Campari tonic and a shot of brandy on ice. And then after that, he’ll have about this much (showing with fingers) brandy, and sip and nurse it until lunch. And then he won’t drink again until about 5:00 at night, and he’ll do the same thing before dinner.

O: You know my grandfather, my grand, grandfather, everything no good. They die. Both die.

R: Yeah, they both died drunk.

O: I have my beer in the hour, we drink it. Fifteen minutos.

R: Yeah, 11:00. Never before 11, and never during the day. He has his two drinks before lunch and two before dinner.

J: And I know family is very important. You have big family gatherings.

R: Yeah. Every day.

O: Thirteen people.

R: We have two meals a day together, most days. Literally, 90% of the time. Like today, it will be me and Jules and my sister and Michael. And then Stefano is in Napa, and my other son, Dante, will be here. My daughter’s here when she’s not in school, or not working or whatever. I think it’s been important. I think it’s had a big input on my kids, having them sit down with their grandparents and hearing stories and seeing values. I mean, it’s a different world. There’s no question. Of values, of morals, you know, from their day to today. And I think just telling people about it, you know, in one ear and out the other. But seeing it and living it every day…It’s not going to change them a ton, but it’s planted seeds that are a good thing, in my mind.

J: Well things seem to be heating up here, so … (END OF RECORDING)